How to Get ROI From Ads (Even in a Crowded Market) with John Horn

Friend, I know you're seeing ads everywhere telling you ads are dead, this strategy is dead, that tactic doesn't work anymore. It's hard to know what to do anymore or who to trust.

That's why I brought on John Horn from Stub Group to have a real conversation about how you can actually experience ROI from your ads – even if you're in a crowded, competitive market.

In this episode, we dig into:

Why I wanted John specifically: His agency has worked with over 2,000 clients and overseen a couple hundred million dollars in ad spend across platforms like Google, Meta, and Microsoft. If anyone knows what's working right now, it's him.

Where to start with platforms: Google vs. Meta vs. TikTok – which one is right for YOUR business? John breaks down when to use search-based platforms (Google) versus visual discovery platforms (Meta/Instagram). Spoiler: It depends on whether people are actively searching for what you sell or if you need to introduce them to it.

The AI question I had to ask: Is AI helping or hindering the ad process? John breaks AI into two categories – the targeting/bidding AI (which has improved exponentially) and why you still need human oversight to catch when the algorithm gets it wrong. Example: If you're a tree service, you don't want to pay for clicks from people searching "Dollar Tree."

Does the AI actually track conversions? Yes! John explains how the platforms can see when a search term leads to a purchase (without seeing your private info) and how you can double down on what's working.

The profitability framework: I asked John the technical question everyone wants to know – what percentage of revenue should you spend on ads? His answer surprised me. It's not a one-size-fits-all percentage. He walks through the difference between e-commerce businesses (where margins are fixed) versus service businesses (where overhead is already covered). The goal is finding the "water level" between volume and profit per transaction.

Before you spend a dime on ads: John's process for starting smart:

1. What's actually working best in your business right now? Start there, not with all five services you offer
2. Define what success looks like – are you driving calls, quotes, foot traffic? What can you afford to pay per lead?
3. Do the math BEFORE you start spending (if clicks cost $10 and you can only afford $5 per lead, don't do it)

Timeline for results: You'll see traction immediately (people clicking or not), but give yourself at least 3 months to prove concept and reach profitability. Some businesses get there faster, but that's the realistic runway.

The Google Analytics piece: John's team sets up analytics for every client because the website experience is CRITICAL. You can't just focus on ads and ignore what happens when people land on your site. One insight I loved: There's often a disconnect between the words businesses use (like "arborist") and the words consumers search for (like "tree service"). If your landing page doesn't match search intent, you're wasting money.

What NOT to do (this is gold):

❌ Don't take platform "best practices" as gospel – They're often best practices for making the PLATFORM more money, not you. Those little checkboxes Google suggests? Read them carefully.

❌ Don't view ads as a magic bullet – John describes ads as "fuel for your fire." If your pricing is wrong or your sales process is broken, ads will just send more people through a broken system. Fix your business first, then pour fuel on it.

❌ Don't chase every shiny new thing – Yes, test new features, but don't abandon tried-and-true strategies that work. Use maybe 10-20% of budget for testing, keep the rest on proven workhorses.

The Google suspension issue: I had to ask about this because it's terrifying – last year almost 40 MILLION ad accounts got suspended by Google. John explains it's usually not because competitors reported you, but because Google's automated systems are trying to catch scammers and legitimate businesses get caught in the crossfire. Stub Group specializes in helping people get reinstated.

Why ad costs keep rising: I went on a bit of a tangent about how Google and Meta have created quite the profitable system – as more advertisers join, they can keep raising prices. John confirmed costs per click do increase year over year, which is why sophistication in targeting and messaging is more important than ever.

YouTube ads insight: Costs are typically much lower on YouTube than Google search because you're not targeting someone actively searching to buy RIGHT NOW. You're higher in the funnel building awareness. But Google's targeting is so good (because they know what you've been searching) that YouTube can still drive direct conversions for many businesses.

The bottom line: Ad platforms are mature and competitive. You can't just throw money at them and hope for results anymore. But with the right strategy, clear understanding of your numbers, and smart targeting, ads can absolutely work – even in crowded markets.

Connect with John: Website: StubGroup.com YouTube: Search "Stub Group" for free videos on marketing, business, and Google Ads

About John Horn:

John Horn has spent over a decade in digital marketing and advertising, specializing in helping businesses navigate the complex world of paid advertising across platforms like Google, Meta (Facebook/Instagram), and Microsoft. As a leader at Stub Group (where he was employee #1), John has helped build an agency that's worked with over 2,000 clients and overseen hundreds of millions of dollars in ad spend.

Stub Group was founded to help businesses make the transition from traditional advertising to digital advertising effectively – figuring out how to spend dollars wisely and avoid waste. The agency focuses on Google Ads, SEO, email marketing, and has developed a unique specialty in helping businesses whose ad accounts have been suspended by Google (which happened to nearly 40 million accounts last year).

What sets John apart is his front-row seat to the economy through agency work – he's seen thousands of different business models, revenue streams, and approaches. This gives him unique insights into what works across industries, niches, and business types. He emphasizes that ads are "fuel" for your business, not a magic bullet – they amplify what's already working but can't fix fundamental business problems.

John believes the most successful agencies are those that constantly learn and test new features as platforms evolve, while maintaining a healthy skepticism about platform "best practices" that often benefit the platform more than the advertiser. His approach focuses on sophisticated targeting, clear ROI metrics, and finding the "water level" between transaction volume and profit margins that maximizes profitability for each unique business.

Connect with John - https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnjhorn1/ https://www.youtube.com/c/Stubgroup

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Lindsay Sutherland is a business consultant, speaker, and entrepreneur dedicated to helping business owners build companies that run with freedom, purpose, and profit. With over 20 years of leadership and sales experience in the automotive industry, Lindsay understands the challenges of growing a business that feels more like a burden than a blessing. After leaving corporate life, she co-founded Biz in a Box Solutions, a CRM and automation company that empowers small service-based businesses to streamline their operations and reclaim their time.

Her signature consulting program, The Clockwork Method, guides overwhelmed business owners through the process of systemizing, scaling, and stepping back into the true role of visionary leader. Lindsay’s approach blends practical business systems with faith-led alignment, helping entrepreneurs not only make more money but also create a business that supports their life — not the other way around.

As the host of The Freedom Entrepreneur Podcast, Lindsay shares strategies, stories, and mindset shifts that challenge conventional thinking and inspire business owners to grow without burning out. She also co-owned Off Grid Unlimited Installations, an electrical and renewable energy company in Idaho, where she lives with her husband and four children on their family farm.

Passionate about redefining success beyond hustle culture, Lindsay helps leaders build businesses rooted in clarity, sustainability, and freedom. Whether she’s speaking on stage, consulting with executives, or mentoring faith-led entrepreneurs, her mission is the same: to help people transform their business into a vehicle for purpose, profit, and lasting impact.

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The Clockwork Method

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